The Relationship We Never Expected

The biggest surprise we didn’t expect in foster care wasn’t the paperwork, the routines, or even the heartbreak of saying goodbye. It was the biological families.

When kids first came into our home, we were handed a snapshot of someone’s worst day and quietly taught to keep our distance, protect ourselves, and brace for drama. So we did. We made assumptions about bio moms and dads. We worried about safety. And if we’re being honest, we kind of believed the unspoken message that we were the “good guys” and they were the problem.

Then real life humbled us.

We started meeting parents who clearly loved their kids but were drowning in addiction, poverty, trauma, mental illness, lack of support, and impossible choices like missing visits because they couldn’t get off work or didn’t have transportation. We realized foster care is rarely simple, and people are rarely all good or all bad.

In this episode, we talk about why kids still deeply miss their parents even after removal, how being taken from home can feel traumatic even when it’s necessary, and why visitation days can become some of the most emotionally intense days of the week for everyone involved.

We also get honest about the things that frustrate foster families too — the junk food after visits, last-minute schedule changes, mixed communication, and even the emotional tug-of-war over small things like haircuts, clothes, routines, and control.

Most importantly, we share what helped us stop clashing and start co-parenting better: using a Google Voice number, sending pictures and updates, asking parents what worked at bedtime, coordinating extra visits, and learning that boundaries and compassion can exist at the same time.

If you foster, hope to foster, work in child welfare, or just want a more honest look at reunification and adoption, this conversation might challenge some easy narratives and help you better understand the people behind the case files.

Subscribe, share, leave a review, and send us your questions for a future Q&A:
What do you want to know about working with bio families?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey there everybody. Hopefully this sounds better. We're back.

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hopefully. Welcome back. Welcome back.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

After a little bit of a break down and a break because our sound we're having some sound quality issues. Hopefully this sounds better.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

And we took a little break because of Grace and graduation.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

That's another podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

That's a whole another something.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Yeah, it's been a fun, busy week of the end of school and um

Back After A Busy Break

SPEAKER_00 0:41

graduation, but not graduation. Uh Grace is pretty non-traditional, so we didn't actually do the whole graduation thing, but we're trying to do most of the things that go along with it and being excited and um having a party here this coming week.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

And and let's throw in that this is more old day weekend.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Memorial day, yeah. Today is Memorial Day. So like it's it's just been fun. So I know um we skipped last week. So hopefully you got a chance to log in, listen, catch up, that kind of thing. If you did, we would really love to have some questions for a QA episode that we're gonna throw in here sometime. We do have a handful of questions, but not a lot of them. So it wouldn't be a very long episode at this point. So I would really like what I really want is questions about foster care, maybe even questions about our family, how we do it with the party in nine. Um, or maybe, you know, hey, in this episode you talked about this, and I I'm confused. How could I explain that better to you guys? So please, if you're listening and you have questions, please get

Ask Us Foster Care Questions

SPEAKER_00 2:00

them out to us. We'd love to do a QA session.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yeah, we would uh love to answer the questions and uh, you know, what even if it's about us and what makes us tick.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

We're a little ticky tonight. We'll just throw that out there. But we're gonna get this done. So uh two weeks ago, our episode was um our how we said goodbye, and then maybe even hello. We talked a little bit about what it was like to say goodbye to a placement or to a child that we had brought into our home and fell in love with and then had to love them out the door, I guess. Um, so that was the episode with bad quality sound, but we didn't want to re-record it because we felt like we were um I feel like it was genuine. It was genuine, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

It like was very it I thought it was a good episode, other than the sound quality sounded kind of like crap, you know. At this point, it may have even been one our best one quite yet. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, I don't know either.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

I I felt really good about it, and then we made it. And then we listened to it, and I was like, oh well, this is not good, but I'm like, I don't know that we'll get that.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Yeah. So anyway, so go back and listen, let us know what you think. Um today's episode, we are going to talk about biofamilies. Um, these children that we've loved as our own are not our own. In fact, they're not at all, you know, and they have biological moms and biological dads. And um when you're navigating the foster care system, you encounter biological moms and dads in some way or another.

Why Bio Families Matter

SPEAKER_00 3:55

You know, um there were things that we assumed, things we uh maybe didn't even think about. Um, but this episode is going to be about bio moms and dads, what we learned, what like completely changed our thinking about things. And I would love to talk about all of these different things. This one could be a big one because I have a lot, we we have a lot of interactions with bio moms and dads. And it's some positive, some negative, but all something.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Over the years, I'd like I I just think about how they've changed, like from you know, the the parents and the families that we interact with still today, but like we think about the first time that we met them, um, how different, uh kind of crazy. Um and you know, it was kind of I feel like it was on both sides. There was a lot of assumptions, not really knowing. Um, they didn't know our agenda or our. Um unfortunately, we're labeled with being the the ones that take their kids and the ones keeping their kids from them. Yes. And it's our fault.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

So you know, so before we started fostering, we were I I honestly, like I said, I don't think that I really thought about the bio families. I mean, I did. We obviously we learned about that in training, but I wasn't sure, I guess, what to think or how how that was going to go. So I wasn't, I don't remember being scared or nervous, except for the um the assumptions that we already had, or you know, we had heard this, like we've heard these stories, and and that might have been the things that I was afraid of. Like, are they gonna come after us? Are they gonna look for us? Things like that that I think everybody thinks about, and you really don't know how that's gonna go.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Um well, and I feel like that maybe some of that is because you know, we hear the the side of the story um of usually whatever the situation is that's happened and why the kids had been put into care. Um, and so usually there's some situation or situations that had happened. Um and unfortunately at that point, the parents are maybe not necessarily at their best. So definitely you get the the the dirt part of the story, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:30

So, you know, I feel like you and we instantly I don't know that we feel judgmental, but instantly, in my opinion, when we find out that drugs, abuse, domestic violence, things like that, then we are our our guards automatically go up and we we start thinking like, how could somebody like this do this? Why can't they just get it together for their kids so that you do have negative thoughts? And it is okay to have negative thoughts. You're wondering, like, what's happening? Why are they being like this? Are there is there gonna be drama? You know, because like he's like Sli said, they often think about foster parents as the ones who took their kids. When in reality, we didn't take their children, their children were already removed from the home by an agency. And we were the ones that said, Yeah, we'll open our door and bring these children into our house. So technically, we're on the the same side as the parent when it comes to we want to help you take care, help take care of these children while you figure out life and you know what needs to happen so that you can have them back. So, yes, you're initially judgmental. I would say everybody, you know, it breaks your heart, especially because they call us and they say, here's why the child was removed.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Then you bring this child into your home. And I think about so many of them and just how scared and sometimes filthy and right just lost. And and we didn't do anything. We weren't the ones that met I don't want to say messed up, but you know, we're

Fears And Assumptions About Parents

SPEAKER_00 8:10

not the ones that did that.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Right. We didn't create this situation. We're we're just here to help.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

And honestly, sometimes thanks to the agency, we really didn't even know the whole story.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

And then you add that I feel like the agency made it out to like they they always made them out to seem like really terrible people.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

And that we should avoid all contact.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Especially at the beginning for us.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Well, yeah, especially because they would uh we they would have us like visitation. I just think of like how they wanted us to come at a different time, eat 15 minutes earlier, or they would have the parents already there in the building, so that way they didn't know what we should dri what we showed up driving, and you know, yeah, just how they really just I mean we touched base about this on um one of our earlier episodes that they just really wanted to keep us separated and not in contact or even run into each other, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Yeah, and so just in that, I feel like it made us think like we needed to be afraid, we needed to be very protective, we needed to be like not taking the same route home every day and paying attention to who's following us. And I mean, I even had a a plan in case, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

So Well, now I actually now that you say that, I feel like that was something that was potentially brought up in a training of some sort at the beginning. Um, and I think that's even why we came up with that plan of just in case. Um yeah, it was it's crazy not to say that because yeah, we had a plan and we had people who knew the plan and like, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

So uh in reality, once we started and all of the assumptions or what we thought things were going to be, it really came down to one, there is no doubt that they loved their children.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

That I would never question that in most of my cases, our cases. Um love isn't always enough though. When you have addiction, poverty, trauma, mental illness, domestic violence, these are real issues, and there isn't an easy fix.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

And then add on it's not a quick fix, and it that's I feel like that that is something that we probably was really eye-opening was the true effects of addiction and uh like all of it and how difficult it really is. And I feel like then it I mean it I I feel like as it went on, we kind of realized that these are people like they're just making bad choices.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

And a lot of the times, not all the times, but a lot of the times, they were just children themselves, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

A lot of our bioparents were babies, in my opinion. I mean, I'm right 43 years old, 44. Well, the kids decide I was today. Um, not as old as you, but anyways, they uh they were babies, yeah. And and then there's often that generation cycle of things, you know, the hurt. They're caught in that cycle of well, my mom was a teenage mom, so I'm a teenage mom. My mom was in on the welfare system, so I'm on the welfare system, or my family did drugs, I was raised around drugs, so I'm gonna be doing drugs, or the list could go on and on and on. And the line between stability and crisis is so small, right? And it can be teeter-tottered for only so long. And in our country, the uh the drug epidemic is so large that resources are sometimes hard to come by, right? Sometimes hard to get, or just getting the help that they need can be challenging. And then also the ones who don't want to ask for help because if you ask for help, I mean, in all honesty, I have a friend or an acquaintance who went to ask for help and then her children end up being taken from her because of that. And so that's a very big fear in this day and age. And I'm sad to say that that a mom can't feel comfortable going to ask for help without worrying that her children are gonna be taken from her. Um, but that's a county-state issue.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Um well, and I feel like that they don't want that label of to be in the system.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Um or if they've already been in the system. In this case, they had already been through the system. So feeling like going to ask for help was risky because if they suspect anything, then they're gonna just reopen their case.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

So the agency just kind of made it feel like we shouldn't foster a relationship. Um, but that's not always, it's not always possible. There's a lot of misconceptions when it comes to biological families. We already touched on this a little bit. Bioparents don't care. And that is not the case.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

No.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

No. And in fact, they care so much, but feel helpless or like they've failed, they've put all their energy and effort into the wrong places. And in many cases, they really struggle in getting like if the children have been removed and placed in foster care, then if they're they have addiction problems, then it feels like failure. And what do most people when they fail

Addiction Poverty And Missing Visits

SPEAKER_00 14:05

at something, you know, or you're feeling down, you turn to food or your drug of choice or whatever, you know. So a lot of time they lacked the tools that they needed to uh handle stress and to have support and those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Um well, and it's you know, unfortunately, it is so much easier to go with what you know um versus what you don't or what could potentially, you know, what needs to change. Um and it's a lot of it is they probably went that way just to help numb the pain. Unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Well, and then you also have um they would show up and consistently, and people would say, How can they not even show up for their kids? But not knowing that they may not have the resources like transportation to get there, or um part of their case plan is they have to work. And if work isn't going to let them out for visitation, then they have to miss visitation. And I mean, all of these things can be worked around. Um, but again, it's back to that resources and you know, being willing to open up to your caseworker and and get the help that you need.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

But then again, sometimes parents are in such denial that they don't think they've done anything wrong. Right. Um, you know, because we had that, I would say we had that with some maybe some dads, maybe even some moms, but they think I didn't do anything wrong, so I don't have anything to fix.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Right. I don't need to fix it because I didn't do anything wrong. So which then it just continues that cycle over and over again.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Um yeah. Another misconception, uh, reunification is bad. Well, in reality, reunification is the goal, period. Almost always, like always, just reunification is the goal. So you can feel like it's bad. You might even have that gut feeling like this is not gonna go well, they should not go home, but you as the foster parent don't really get that choice, you know. So knowing that reunification is the goal, um your role as foster parents, family really should be more that you are fostering with the family too, learning to co-parent, kind of um working together instead of against each other. So if you can get past that, we didn't take your children. I'm not here to take your children, I'm here to help while we figure life out. And if you can make that connection with biofamilies, like help me instead of working against me, well, then you have that, you're gonna have a better opportunity and in support and healing with them.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Well, and it takes them to just like we pre-judge or come up with these assumptions, um they have to allow us to help them and understand that we we're here to help. And so it it it's hard for both parties to let their guard down and and let each each one of us help them.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah. So another thing is that the kids almost always love and miss their parents, they do, and most of the time, they would rather not be removed from their home because the life that they're living, that's normal to them. So by removing, even though we as people don't look at their lifestyle as a normal lifestyle to the children, they don't understand that that's not that is what normal life is like. That is taking care of yourself or taking care of your younger brothers and sisters, that's their life. And so when you remove them from that, that's like sometimes the kids would rather just not be removed, right? You know, because that's a that's a major trauma. And when they come into a house, in our opinion that is normal, our normal, right? It seems odd to them.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Yeah, they don't know how to, they just don't know how to act. Um and they're away from their family. Um, not only just whoever lives in that house, but you know, aunts, uncles, friends, they're they're old enough, they're they're taken from school.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

A lot of times grandmas are helped take care of them, neighbors, things like that. Like that's their normal. Um another misconception is that we are rescuers. And really, reality is we are not rescuers. And a lot of times we're even viewed as the ones who took the kids, which and when we've already talked about that, we're not, but we step into the middle of someone else's trauma, trauma that we probably know one percent of, if you think about it. The story we, you know, we get the cliff notes from the agency, and that's all we get. And so we're stepping into the middle of this. We have to be humble and and realize that we don't know the full story, we don't know what has happened to them.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Well, and I just like I also think that we're stepping in. Um, one, we don't know the story, but we're stepping into a lifestyle that we don't know nothing about. The street smart side of some of these kids, even like there's things that you see and you hear, and I'm very much like, I don't know, like it's just the just completely different lifestyle, and you don't like it even just to think that the that that doesn't exist in your neighborhood or in your county or your town, um, and then when you do this and you step into that, you realize that it's very much so around, and you know, it's hard for us to understand how it works and why you would do it, and because it's a lifestyle that we don't live. Um and so you're taking these kids from that lifestyle that is normal and bringing them into our house

Kids’ Trauma And Visit Disappointment

SPEAKER_02 20:20

and our structure and our rules to them are not normal. Um, it's completely odd. They don't understand it, you know? And they're just like, why why do we do it this way? Why why do I have to do it? I didn't I didn't have to do that at at my house. Even something silly as a bedtime, that's that's not how we do it.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Or nine times out of ten, they did not sleep at night. Right. Or just or we learned that quickly, having to have a TV or something. Um you know, so there is some of their there is some difficulty too. Like there are there are times when the children don't want to see their biological parents and the court orders that they do, and you really see that from our side, yeah. Um they don't want to, or maybe they do want to, but the parents don't show up. That's devastating. It's really, really devastating. You can kind of you sense the anxiety before it's even starting, or before the day of like you sense the anxiety that they start to feel, knowing that they're going to have a visit. Um, like, and we get the tummy trouble and I don't feel good, and the mood swings, the change in routine, things like that. But our job is to just figure it out, get them excited for lack of a better word, but prepare them for visit, packing them their bags, a snack, lunch if they're leaving school. School. A lot of times the visitation bus would pick them up from school and bring them to the agency.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

And um and it would go back to that, like again, would take them out of their routine that they are just now starting to potentially get used to and becoming normal. And again, another change, another um, and then there's an another chance of disappointment.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Yeah, and it happened frequently, and that was very, very devastating to some of our kids that especially the ones that got pulled out of school, put on a bus, brought to the agency only to be told that there was no visit today, it was canceled. Um, or in the case where I would bring them to the agency and we would sit in our car and we'd sit in our car and we'd sit in our car, and they'd be like, We're still waiting, we're still waiting. We're gonna give them till 10:15, we're gonna give them 15 more minutes.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Or I remember going in and actually sitting and waiting. And and I remember one instant, uh little girl, and she she was upset. We were getting close, like Kelly said, you could tell, um, like the time was getting close, and she kept asking what time it was, how much longer, and then it the time came, they still weren't there. Um, and then she was like, Can we wait? Can we wait? Can we wait? And then she kept crying, and then she literally I mean, we're really there to put those pieces back together five minutes.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

And so we would have sadness, and then we'd have anger, and anger breeds trauma, brings that up, and right, and anger. And if you think some of these children have witnessed domestic violence, so they get mad and they want to be physically violent, and it is a struggle, it really does have an effect on everybody in the house. Um but again, a lot of times children are routine-based, especially when you have lots of kids, you know. So I felt like if I didn't tell them it was giving doing a disservice. So we learned to maneuver. We knew which parents struggled with showing up, we knew which ones were gonna be there early, we knew which ones would be there and watching us pull in just became something that we worked on. But I would say that visitation really was the hardest part as far as um disappointment for the kids. The but the parents have control over some, in my opinion, some silly things. And I understand why they do it um like haircuts. There they have to give permission to give the let let us get the kids a haircut. That's why our boys looked like little old men for the long for the longest time. They had the big hair, don't care. Um, but I understand why they did it now, like they needed to have like they had some type of control over something so that they felt like they were working towards something. Um we just sometimes we found ourselves just rooting for reunification, but just also grieving what that meant for for us and the child ultimately. And sometimes you had a good feeling about it, and sometimes it wasn't so great. Um I talked about this a little bit, but what co-parenting actually looked like. So visitation at the office, we kind of talked about the kids either either we took them or they used a transit to get them there and back. Um then uh eventually the children would start doing like outside visits. If they were gonna start transitioning home, they would get to do outside visits and then longer visits with families outside. And so when that kind of came along, then Sly and I are responsible for uh making that happen, making the kind of like this is we'll meet you here, you pick up here, and that became very sometimes

Co-Parenting Tools That Helped

SPEAKER_00 26:05

very scary. And that, but it was also when we finally or was able to start getting um to communicate with um the bio families. Um during COVID, we had to do video calls from our home. So we had to put sweet little two-year-old on a tablet so she uh they could talk to mom. And that was not fun. Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

I was like, have you ever tried to get a a toddler, a tablet, like and long enough to like stay on the phone?

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Get them to sit down in front of it.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Yeah, without like just off. Like I feel like about you got about 45 seconds.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah. So eventually we um we set up a Google phone number that we both had and like an for our app. And um uh we shared that number so that we weren't sending out our personal phone number, but we would share this Google number so that way if the parents wanted to contact us, because we all know at this, even at this day and age, that texting is what people want to do or that kind of thing, or they look you up on Facebook and then you freak out, but that's we'll get to that. Um, so we gave out a Google number so the parents could we could send pictures back and forth to kind of just foster that relationship. Um, when they would do outside visits, we would try to write down kind of a schedule, what they like, if they were sensitive to any types of food that we had discovered. Um, we would ask please don't feed them a whole bag of Oreos at visit because then they puke it up on the way home. We had that happen. You know, we tried to find ways.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

That was the worst, right? It was probably for me was the junk food in that hour or two hours of visit, and they would just consume so much junk, and then all night it would be upset bellies or throwing up on the car ride home. Um yeah, they just seem to get all kinds of junk. Um, but again, that goes back to the they got to be the let me you know be excited and bring you this stuff and you get all this McDonald's and junk food, and then we're the ones here that have to clean it up.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

And it would get frustrating. We would have that tension, that emotional tension that like, ugh, like why are you doing this? I get it. You're trying to be like, oh, I brought you Oreos, but in reality, they haven't had an Oreo in months, and now they're sick over it. And or into lactose intolerance, yes, bring yes, lactose-sensitive kids. And so then you're giving them ice cream, and then we're getting the aftermath, and we all know what the aftermath of a lactose intolerance is. It's not pretty.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

No, it's not pretty at all.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

So you are trying to support a family knowing that you're fearing the the outcome, the eventual outcome, but you're trying to figure out a way to work together so that you can come back, you can keep in contact with them, even though you are worried about you might lose contact or what happens when they come back into care, or uh learning that we have a temporary role as far as through the agency. But in our case, we found out that our roles continued after reunification and we had contact with family uh families after.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Yeah, and I feel like that it became for me it I I feel like it got a lot better. Um like once we really started building relationships um with people and like all the all the walls were put down, um, let down by everybody. Um and then just realizing that that these people are okay people, they're good people, they're just uh given maybe a crappy hand in life, um, really bad situation, maybe just things they just didn't know where to go, and so it just become it become a really bad situation. I feel like it's no different than you got a little sore in your hand and you just keep picking at it and it becomes so big, then you're like, I don't know what to do with this. Um and so some people don't do well under that pressure, and maybe they just freeze and they they don't know what to do, and then it becomes that situation, and then the agency is involved, um, but doesn't mean necessarily make them bad people. Um, but once we kind of started moving that way, once they start realizing we have the same goal. Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Um, and that was I was like, I was kind of wanting us to talk about a few positive experiences that we had, and that's one. Um, I remember the change. I had a mom who we had a little girl who needed to go to children's hospital, and the mom's parents are able to come to those doctor's appointments, they have that right. And so sh and she came and she came in with if you can picture this, like hands on hips, ready to put herself in her place as mom, and I was gonna know this and recognize this.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

And well, this you know, a little mom that the first time that we actually saw her, that's exactly she was standing in the back of a truck so she could see us in the parking lot.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Right. So just this mom really wanted to let it be known that she's yes, she's mom, which was fine with me. Um, but she had come to children's hospital, and I'll never forget, we're walking, I think like to X-ray or something, and she says something. And I I remember saying, I'm not here to take your child from you. That's not my job. That's

Boundaries Control And Aftermath

SPEAKER_00 32:05

not, I have nothing to do with that. I'm here to parent your child with you. And I remember it was like a light went off that day. Um, and from that day on, and still today, her and I have a wonderful relationship. Like when she realized we had the same goal, we were on the same team, it really did help the situation. And I found that in a lot of our families, asking questions, uh, especially if they were older and we were having trouble getting them to eat, like, hey, is there something that they really love to eat because we are struggling in this situation? Or did you have a bedtime routine that was helpful because we're obviously having trouble getting bedtime down? Um, when they realized that we had a shared love for the same thing and the same goal, it would really help the situation.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Well, yeah. And they've they realized that one, I mean, that we're humans and we're trying to figure it out and we're possibly making mistakes and struggling with maybe the same things that they struggled with at bedtime or getting them to eat or you know, and then we also helped we would share the happy or the fun.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

We would send them texts.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

We had texts and pictures or little notebooks that we would send back and forth. And I'll never forget, we did have um uh a biracial child at one point, and uh I was obsessed with figuring out the hair, if you know what I mean. And I had done all the research and asked all the things, and I really in that time worked towards um finessing the hair or hair, and uh I'll never forget the day that I got a like a quick test text message from mom thanking me and telling me that she could tell that I was really putting in effort and she appreciated that because um, and maybe that's an another podcast, but if you are thinking about fostering and you are thinking about fostering biracial children, their hair texture is different. So I didn't actually get to communicate with her a lot. Um, but eventually we did, and like I said, I got the letter that said, or the text that said, thank you for taking the time to learn about her hair, because not everybody would do that. Um and I think because of that, we still see and communicate with so many, so many of our kids. Um that I think that's the positive stuff like that makes that made it worth it. There were still, I mean, there were some we never saw or heard from again, but for the most part, we at least have some ideas about how they're doing and what you know, things the things that they're doing now. Um well, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

I I we we stay in touch with them and I think it's great. And even now, the ones that we adopt didn't like we those parents, most of them we stay in contact with, and even the ones that maybe at first didn't even want to talk to us. Um we have that situation, but we've accidentally run into them uh because we live is not that big of a a town, and for me, and I was I was the one that ran in to this father, and and I didn't think nothing of it. I didn't like he just wanted to say hi to him. I stood there, left him talk to him, and um and it was funny, like not funny, but like he had the bad rap. Um, but he he was crying at the end of it after they got to all got to hug and talk to him, and then he looked at me and he shook my hand, he said, Thank you. He's like, just thank you for letting me just say hi to them. Again, that's one of those like I just I'm not here to take your kids, and they're your kids. You deserve if you're gonna be okay with them and not cause a problem. I don't have a problem with you hugging your babies and saying hi.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

In that case, the things fell into place. In that case, yes, we have adopted them and we didn't we didn't take them to begin with, right? But we have adopted them in our children. Um, and in our family, we have a very we have a like vegetable soup kind of a family, lots of mixed parts and pieces in our bowl. And so, but one of the things that I we pride ourselves in is that we our kids understand that there are biological moms and biological dads, and that we are their adoptive parents, and that they are all brothers and sisters through adoption. And one of the things we've never wanted to do was to make them think less of a

When Trust Finally Clicks

SPEAKER_00 36:55

biological family member ever. Like in our case, we do not speak badly about them. There might be times where we've thought badly, but we do not speak that to the kids. And we try to stay real honest with them about their situations.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

Like you said, we don't talk bad about them. We just I feel like the worst, like not even the worst thing, I don't know how to say worst thing, but like they're just not making good choices right now. And so that's maybe why you haven't talked to them for a while, right? Or or been able to communicate with them.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Yeah. So along with the positive, there's always some negative, some of the like trying to control things, parent, biological parents, trying to take control of things, trying to change visit times, or hey, can we do this instead? Um we often had parents, especially in the county visitation, hey, her toenails haven't been cut. Why haven't her toenails been cut? Call the foster family. Why haven't her toenails been cut?

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Um or the notes, really.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Like the notes that that I just I would get phone calls a lot at work. This is visitation, and it and my thinking, oh, they didn't show up. And no, the biological parents would look for reasons to pick a put pick at us. Um, and it was fine. I had plenty of responses for those kinds of things. Um so there was some tension sometimes. Another was like you said, navigating boundaries, running into people. We do live in a small town, and it's funny you said that because I never thought about it until the very first time I was in Walmart with Camilla.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

And I had this everybody knows her and they know that I'm not her mom. What's gonna happen? It didn't happen, but I just I remember having that like feeling come over us of me, like, oh no.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

Right. Well, yeah, because you were at the store with her, another little one, and then possibly Grace. And so yeah, but so it's crazy that yeah, we do unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

You work to build bridges, but bridges aren't always strong, right? Sometimes they're a little shaky on both sides. So um I wanted to do a talk about a I don't know, I decided that maybe we should talk about one one one story at the moment. Um of our of our girls' mom. That's let's let's go there, I guess. Um we have a lot of back and forth with them. Um and I'm thankful every day for their mom and that um even though like the girls had been with us and then they reunified, um, that I kept that contact with her, being able to help her when the agency had stepped out, being that support person for her. Um really in the end, it became beneficial because there would be times when she would reach out for help. And I felt good about helping. And it's it says something about a mom who can reach out for help because she doesn't, you know, she knows that she needs help. Right. Um, and we don't want the agency, like she doesn't need that kind of help, she just needs support. And it felt nice to be able to um help ultimately. There would be times that she would reach out and we'd have the girls for a while, and then the girls would go home. And it just it was we kept in contact for the entire time that they were not with us, and um that one, it helped me foster my relationship with her and her to feel safe and comfortable with us, and it ultimately when they ended up coming back to us, um that was that was uh voluntarily yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

I I feel like that the relationship that you had with her is uh what led to them coming back um because she was comfortable with us and you and she contacted us again, needed help, and a lot of times the help wasn't always like that big of a deal.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Just there were times we'd get groceries or they needed a washer or needed a ride somewhere or something like that, or I just can you watch the girls tonight for a little bit, you know. So um it really does, if you can get past the nerves and the anxiety and the scary part of it, it became she was really one of the first ones that I I really connected with in outside of once the the once the agency wasn't really part of it. And that really helped me learn how to navigate that so that in future placements that we had, I was able to connect more with biological moms and and dads and felt comfortable. Um, and I hope that the theme that you get from this is that relationship is key, same goal, the same, like we are all here for the same reason, and that's to get these kids in the best situation that possible. Um, and so those are the positive things. And I would really say that most of our disappointment is from the agency. The hard stuff was because of the agency. They would confuse us on the reasons for placement, they wouldn't tell us the whole story or any of the story, they would tell us someone's adoptable or is going, they think this one's gonna move into adoption, and it was not the case. And I mean, that's normal in foster care, it changes daily. But like in when in our in thinking that the biological family was gonna be the hard part, and I in my opinion, our opinion, the hard part came from the agency. I feel

Agency Problems And Hard Truths

SPEAKER_00 42:55

like they they set us up to not communicate with the families, right? Which then in turn makes us look like the bad guy and we think they're the bad guy, and and you know, and really I know we're gonna I don't want to get too deep into this because we have really strong thoughts about that, but you know, learning that we needed to learn how to navigate with the parents so that they realize that we are right.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Well, yeah, and I and I feel like that, like you said, the the hard part was from the agency, and I and I feel like what opened our eyes to that, and like you said, I I could start a rant onto this for a while, but I won't. Um but I will say that after we fostered those relationships with the bio families and or parents, um, you realize that m everything that was told to us from the agency was not maybe accurate. It um even about things the situation, yeah. Um those parents were pretty brutally honest with us, and so you know, but they were also really good at mean manipulation, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:15

The parents, and what I mean by that is that they could take like our love for the kids and manipulate it into oh we need this, you want the kids for a while, like things like that. So we did have a few issues with using our love for them to manipulate us into like helping them get something or or keep the kids for a while, but so that the bios could take a break. That's fine. Ultimately, that's okay. Um, we were here it was able, we were able to have some time with the kids and just check in on them too, in that case. So we could look at it that way. If we did have the kids for a while, we could make sure they were okay. And sometimes they'd come with things that needed to be taken care of, like headlights and things like that. But right um we learned our we had to learn what our boundaries would be. So what do we know now? Now that we've gone through it, nothing, right? Now that we've had 18 kids in in the in the past 10 years, we've learned that the agency doesn't always give the best advice. Right. Number one. Uh compassion matters, but so do boundaries. Like love does not equal bound love does not equin equal manipulation, right? Boundaries, and you know, um, it's a hundred times more complicated than people make it seem to be. A hundred times. Social media, everything is glamorized. It is it is a hundred times more complicated.

unknown 45:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

And it's there's both sides of it. It's like you say about social media, and it it can be great and grand, but it's also a lot, like, and I say a lot, like a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Um yeah, I mean, healing, helping to heal families is messy and hard. It's hard to do. Um, but ultimately kids benefit when adults learn to work together, especially when making decisions that affect the rest of their life.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

And that's a really hard pill to swallow because it's not that way. It is, it's I and it unfortunately, this is we are still advocates for foster care, but I'm here to tell you that it's not always what's best for the kids. That's true. That's true. When people start dogging foster care, some of it is true. Like it's true that kids benefit when adults work together, but they really don't always do that. Um so some advice for foster parents stay humble, uh, stay teachable. What else? Uh don't assume that you know everything because you don't. And remember that these are people and that they're they love their children and they they need your love too. They need your support too. They need you to realize that it's the same team, same goal.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

Same and I'm like referencing soccer, you know, like quit kicking at each other when you guys could work together, you know, to get that goal get that goal.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

And at the end of the day, with us all working together, can the kids get too much love? No, and is too much love bad for them?

SPEAKER_00 47:39

No, and that's why we always tell them it's okay. Some of ours will say, Well, I have two moms, but I have three or four dads because of just this is the way they think that the way things work. Um, but before we go, uh before we close on this biofamily, I thought we could give a few of our a little bit of our stats. We were foster parents for 10 years. We had 18 placements total. Out of those 18, five

Stats Ongoing Contact And Closing

SPEAKER_00 48:10

we've had no contact since they've left. We don't, there's only five that we have no idea what's happened to them. I think I could find that information if needed, but or just we just don't really like contact, we don't have that contact with bioparents or wherever they went.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

I'm not a stats person, but I feel like that's pretty good. 18. Like I feel like that shows that we've uh fostered some kind of relationship with the parents.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Um, and then seven that have left, we have contact with, we keep up with them often. Um and we're able to check in on them. One, I I um and actually she wants to come on our podcast, but I have one mom that I talk to daily, weekly, take her shopping, get her all her things. Like I get to see this, this one frequently because I'm support person. I'm her support person.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

She doesn't have family local, she doesn't have um help and support. She doesn't drive, uh, but she does have her baby girl. And well, she's six years old now, but but and so I'm Aunt Kelly, and I'm uh her support persons. And then after that, the remaining six, if you can guess, are ours, the ones we adopted. So they they did not go um anywhere. And we do have contact with both moms, one of the dads, um, some extended family for both of them.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

Um, and well, and and I don't want to say like it's crazy though, like how from like when we started this to where we are now, and when we say contact with them, these moms and this particular dad on a regular basis have come to our house even, come to sports, watch their kids play sports, picnics, that kind of stuff, cookouts.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Yep, they're part of our family, right? They are part of our puzzle, right? And our children will know these people, they will know, like foster care is not about replacing parents. No, adoption's not about replacing parents, it's about supporting children, supporting healing, sometimes helping families find their ways back to each other, right? Or in our case, adoption, and they have found their ways back to each other through us, and we all have the same goal. We all are there for these kids.

SPEAKER_02 50:46

Um and our only rule is just you have to be safe. These number one priority.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

We will not traumatize them again.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

If we can't, uh if we can prevent that kind of stuff, that's that's the plan. So this probably was a really long episode. Our new recorder doesn't tell us how long we've been recording, so we'll find out.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

I had that thought. I was like, hmm.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

When we come back next week, I'm excited about this one. Uh when foster becomes forever. Oh wall in party of nine. Or in that case, it was wall in party of six. But right. Wall in party of nine.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

I know it's it's funny. I I work with the public and I I I work at a dealership, and it's funny. People ask, how many kids do you have? And then when I tell them seven, it's all the answers I get. It's it's funny. I all the differences.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

So next week we're gonna talk about adoption. How foster what has happened now that we've had kids, we've lost kids, we've gotten kids, they've come back, and now when they could become Wallens. Become Wallins, Team Wallen, right? Yeah, we call that Team Wallen. So hopefully you'll join us next week. We really appreciate you guys listening. Don't forget to send us those questions. Thanks for being part of our story.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Yes, thank you.